Preview Mode Links will not work in preview mode

Nov 30, 2017

In honor of International Day of Persons with Disabilities on December 3rd, the Windows Insider Podcast team explores advancements in inclusive technology. For decades, Microsoft has been creating products and services to serve people of all abilities, and in recent years the company has made a stronger commitment to this goal with the appointment of Chief Accessibility Officer, Jenny Lay-Flurrie. In this episode, we chat with Jenny about the future of inclusive tech, and we learn how feedback from users (and Windows Insiders!) is shaping Microsoft’s efforts. To find out more about Microsoft’s commitment to accessibility and inclusion, visit Microsoft.com/Accessibility.

 

Episode transcript:

NARRATOR:  Welcome to the Windows Insider where we explore all things Windows, the Insider community and beyond

I'm your host, Jason Howard (ph).  You are listening to Episode 9, and this month's theme is accessibility

JASON HOWARD:  Wait a minute, that's not me.  That was the Windows 10 Narrator.  And it's more than just a podcast gimmick, the Narrator feature helps people who are blind or have low vision navigate their computers by reading what's on screen

When you think about how much of what we do in the world relies on what can be read, you really start to understand how this technology could impact the lives of millions of people

More and more accessibility features are built into the DNA of Microsoft services and products.  These features deliver on Microsoft's mission to empower every person and every organization on the planet to achieve more.  That includes ensuring people of all abilities can participate in life, work, and society

Today, we're going to talk to someone who's taking the ideals of accessibility and inclusion and putting them into action.  Please meet Microsoft's Chief Accessibility Officer, Jenny Lay-Flurrie

So here you are the Chief Accessibility Officer.

JENNY LAY-FLURRIE:  I am

JASON HOWARD:  What does that mean

JENNY LAY-FLURRIE:  Basically, it means that my job is to drive for a great experience for customers with disabilities and employees with disabilities, and also really pursue the concept of inclusive design.

So it just means I'm really thinking about a section of our customer base that's pretty big, and how we can ensure that we're delivering great products, great services, great hiring process, to ensure that we're really inclusive

JASON HOWARD:  A few years ago, accessibility could have been considered a side project at many companies, but things have changed, at least at Microsoft.  Now it's becoming an integral part of our company culture and product development.  Can you tell us how that happened

JENNY LAY-FLURRIE:  Yeah, it's kind of cool what's going on, and I'm loving being part of it.  But actually accessibility has been part of Microsoft's strategy for well over actually 20 years.  But we've definitely in the last couple of years decided to really kick it up a notch

And by kicking it up a notch, it's just really leaning into the opportunity that we have.  You know, there's a billion people in the world with disabilities, a billion plus.  These are our customers, our friends, our peers, our everything.  And there's a whole suite of innovation that can come from really designing products and building products that include disability

So we invested in some resources across the company, across our product divisions, including my lovely team, and really decided to go after that opportunity to build better products, and to really think about how we were hiring talent across the spectrum of disability as well

JASON HOWARD:  So Microsoft's CEO Satya Nadella has a son who's in a wheelchair because of cerebral palsy, and is paralyzed.  Satya has said in his new book Hit Refresh that having a son with disabilities has made him more empathetic, and that's one of the reasons he's committed to driving accessibility and inclusion at Microsoft.  That explains why the company is working towards some of these accessibility initiatives

On a personal level what experience has led you to working in accessibility

JENNY LAY-FLURRIE:  It's a great question, and Satya, the book is just it's incredible.  And if you haven't read it, please do.  I mean, Satya is sharing his own personal experiences there.  It's just incredibly powerful

I think we've all had a personal journey.  My personal journey, let's just say I would never have predicted that I would be doing this job today.  I mean, I come from a small town on the outskirts of Birmingham in the UK.  I went through mainstream education.  I went to a music college.  I got a classical music degree.  And I thought I was going to be a really cool classical rock star or a music therapist or something in that vein

And then I started working in IT, actually in a newspaper in London on the IT help desk, and realized that I dig, I just love problem-solving.  And I thought that was going to be my career was, you know, solving problems with IT and doing a bit of music on the side

But all the way through the one stream that I've had all the way through this is that I'm deaf, I'm profoundly deaf.  And my deafness has decreased since I was a child

So I went to music college with moderate deafness.  It's slid since then.  And I never, ever -- I mean, I hid  my deafness for many years, wasn't really open about it.  But I think maybe people way wiser and smarter than me could have predicted the path is me realizing that I could really use these skills, and use them to make a difference, not just for me and my friends, but to make a difference seriously in a company like Microsoft

So I came to Microsoft 13 years ago.  I came to run technical support, still solving problems, and then about five, six years ago took a risk and changed career, and went to be an individual contributor to change the world for customers with disabilities, and I've never looked back

JASON HOWARD:  Wow.  So how does working in this field change the way you see the world

JENNY LAY-FLURRIE:  I've worked in different jobs over the years, you know, whether it was support or online advertising for a while.  I've worked in different things.  And I firmly believe that technology has the power to empower.  And I've seen that in different spheres, but I think never more in the work that I do today, which is every day working with peers and friends, seeing how they're leveraging technology and just realizing and appreciating what we can do to make that experience better, whether it's somebody using a wheelchair with limited dexterity manipulating some part of Office, or it's somebody who's blind working through a web page, whether that's our own or someone else's, or me with captioning and how that changes my life and others, and how we can get that more integrated into the fabric of our company

So you know, I really do think that it's a really empowering field to work in.  I walk out every day with the same frustrations and same joys as everyone else, but I do have a deep-seated sense that we are making a difference.  And that's the opportunity we have

JASON HOWARD:  Well, as you just mentioned Office, Microsoft has developed a wide variety of accessibility features such as Windows 10 Narrator, Office 365's built-in tools for authoring accessible content, things of that nature.  There's even eye tracking technology that enables people who have limited mobility to navigate their PCs using only their eyes

Can you tell us about the development of those features?  Did anything come up unnecessary during the R&D research and development cycle

JENNY LAY-FLURRIE:  I don't know what you mean.  I don't think anything ever comes up that surprises during an R&D cycle.  (Laughter.)  I can't ever imagine that scenario playing out

Always.  And I think at the core if we follow those principles of inclusive design, inclusive design is all about making sure that you design a product that is embedding the feedback of people and experts.  And in our area that's people with disabilities

So whenever we're looking, and Office has done anile job across every single component of Office 365, across every platform, of putting a brand new bar of accessibility out there, and that's anything from PowerPoint to Excel to Sway, right?  If you don't Sway, you should Sway.  And every single componentry has been designed in collaboration with people

So that means you do some prototypes, you get them out there, you get a bunch of people in a room, and you say, hey, but have a play, and scenario-led and all that good stuff

But yet it's very hard to replicate the experience of someone who's blind or someone with a visual impairment.  The speed at which they are reading the screen, as somebody who's deaf it's very hard for me to comprehend, and it's way faster than we can sign

You have to lean into the experiences that you get from people, and you learn the hints and tricks and the keyboard shortcuts are very important.  And if you have tried to go off the standardized path, you need to pull it back in a little bit

And just the extra words that we tend to put in, or if we put in alt-text, you know, the words that describe images, and we don't put those in accurately, just how destructive that can be to the overall usability of the experience

So I think we've learned a lot along the way, and we've definitely learned a lot with eye control, the new feature in Windows, because that came from a hack actually three years ago, the first hack that I ever got involved in, and it was a guy called Steve Gleason from Louisiana who came to us with a list of beautiful ideas that basically were, hey, Microsoft, can you make my experience better?  He's an NFL player, a Spokane native, Washington State native, but living in Louisiana with his wife and beautiful kid Rivers.  And he was the genesis of a three-year journey through our research division, through Windows division, and many, many more, and many people with ALS here in Seattle that helped us to get eye control into Windows

And we're still learning.  It's a beater feature, and we're still learning.  You can't replicate ALS.  It's about hours and hours and hours of sitting with people and understanding how to make sure it's the best experience

But yeah, you can now control your mouse with your eyes.  You can type with your eyes using a Windows device with a full Creator's Update.  So it's pretty kickass

JASON HOWARD:  That's quite a journey, it seems

JENNY LAY-FLURRIE:  Yeah, I do think it's a journey, and I think we'll continue to reiterate.  And that's also why Insiders are so important, right?  We need -- we need people to give us that feedback, what is working, what is not, what can we tweak, what can we improve, what's driving you nuts.  We're only as good as the feedback that we get

JASON HOWARD:  I wanted to ask you about how you include people with disabilities in the product development process, but it seems like the Insider programs are a great way to start with that

JENNY LAY-FLURRIE:  You know, there's multiple, multiple also ways to give feedback.  There always are in a company this size with as many products as we have

The Insiders I cannot promote enough.  I mean, I think it's just a brilliant way to get involved in early stage technology that may be buggy, that may have some funkiness to it, but you have the opportunity to give us feedback knowing that we're listening, and know we're really listening for our customers with disabilities who are using accessible technology.  We want that feedback.  It's gold dust.

And you have the chance to shape the next rev, right, of Windows.  There's nothing more powerful than that

The same with Office.  You know, there's an Office Insiders program.

But there's also other ways.  If you're not too game to install a potential version of Windows that may disrupt the flow a little bit, then there's User Voice.  We have forums there where we're always listening for features.  We're voting them up, voting them down

And also you can give feedback within Narrator built-in screen reader

So there's plenty, plenty ways to make sure your voice is heard

JASON HOWARD:  And now just kind of as a personal note, being on the Windows Insider team, one of the things that when we originally got started, accessibility wasn't necessarily a blocking gate as part of promoting builds from our internal canary and self-host rings into the fast and slow rings.

And part of the feedback that we got was we were making it entirely too difficult to get some of the feedback that was extremely important to get during that development cycle.  So especially for the slow ring and more so now into the fast ring accessibility is becoming a blocking gate to help ensure that we don't break that experience for the users who are giving us that type of feedback

JENNY LAY-FLURRIE:  I love that.  I'm so excited that the priority of accessibility within Insiders and within our products broadly generally is at that level where, yeah, if we're not cutting it, we're going to stop ship, right?  I mean, it's that important to us.  So yeah, I mean, the advice I get, know your power.  You have huge power to influence the flow of our product set

JASON HOWARD:  So along the way obviously there have been many changes of course.  Was there anything that you thought would be an easier problem to solve but proved to be a bit more complex than expected originally

JENNY LAY-FLURRIE:  Harder to solve.  You know, I think when you're looking at accessibility across as many products as we have, and we have really five product divisions, and each of our product sets is launching multiple, you know, literally hundreds of products every year and every month and every week, you know, my biggest challenge today is just really making sure that we keep the consistency, we keep prioritizing at this level, and we keep innovating

Yeah, there are some brilliant features that have come out of now our emphasis on AI in one of our five divisions that's making an impact in Windows.  In fact, if you're blind and using a screen reader or Narrator, and it comes up in images, it's leveraging AI describing that image and embedding alt-text in and speaking that as part of your experience

So no longer are we reliant on everyone to be able to write really good alt-text, right, the descriptions behind these pictures.  We can leverage some of our AI infrastructure.

And I'm looking forward to doing that a lot more, that kind of collaboration across the groups, bringing different parts of joy and wisdom from one into the other.  And both Office and Windows are doing amazing work there

But yes, it's a broad gig, and the bar is very high, because we do believe that this isn't just about meeting a conformance or compliance, this is about leveraging the power of what is possible with the lens of disability

JASON HOWARD:  So the Windows 10 Fall Creator's Update was available through the Insider program months ago.  And the public beta has already launched.  The actual retail release is occurring right now.  And obviously Insiders were able to preview this.  Were there any specific features that showed up in this past development cycle that you've seen in action with real users out in the world?

JENNY LAY-FLURRIE:  Eye control we've already mentioned.  That's built into Fall Creator's Update.  It's an early feature.  We're already getting some feedback.  We really want more.  And, you know, that's one that's just going to grow.  You do need a 4C Tobii device in order to leverage the feature.  So yeah, there are a couple of things to think through with eye control if you're looking at that

I think the other thing with Fall Creators that I really love are the color filters.  This is a brand new feature set.  But if you think about it, color blindness is huge.  Color blindness affects -- it's around 1 in 9 individuals, and mostly men.  And there's lots of different types of color blindness. 

Well, now you can go into your ease of use settings within Windows and you can select one of those filters, and hopefully see Windows in a different way as a result

So that's just brilliant innovation, and I've seen some of that out in the wild, and got some really good feedback from folks who are loving it.  But I also think that's a brand new one that I want to make sure people know about and are leveraging.  I was showing a bunch of people yesterday.  And it's amazing how many people, you'll be sitting in a meeting and mention this feature, and I dare you, right, I bet you at least one hand goes up, because it is that prevalent

So I really do love the color filters.  I think those are really cool

The other one just within Windows I have to mention just Narrator. The Windows team has been really incrementally every release tweaking and performance improvements on Narrator.  They're also now making sure that magnifier speaks with Narrator as well.

And if you are using screen readers, just please go and try it out.  I mean, we've really worked on the languages, we've worked on the speed, we've worked on the accuracy and the usability of it.

And so it's been incremental.  You know, if you're tracking where we're going, this is probably about third or fourth release with improvements to Narrator.  But I urge you to give it a go.  It's kind of fun

JASON HOWARD:  So we mentioned eye tracking technology a couple times, and how it enables people who can't type to both communicate and interact with their PCs.   But at some point, it could be something that we all use.  So how do you see the field of inclusion driving innovation into the future

JENNY LAY-FLURRIE:  I look at that journey that we started with eye control, you know, going back to Steve and an e-mail, right?  It just came from an e-mail, right?  That was the genesis of all of our efforts here

And then you meet Steve and you fall in love, and you're totally lost, right?  You'll do anything for team Gleason

But I think where it's at now is tip of the iceberg as to where it could go.  I've spent some time really looking into eye control, using your eyes to control a device, and there really is limitless potential there for that

And then you look at other areas, right, what we can do and what we are doing with captioning.  One of my favorite products is Microsoft Translator.  And we've actually now got an add-in in PowerPoint

And what it means is that I can be standing on stage or I can be watching somebody else using PowerPoint, and as long as they're mic'd up pretty well, the words of what they're saying will appear on the screen, automatically captioned onto the screen

Now, it in no way replaces the need that I had for my beautiful interpreter sitting to your right or for actual captioning which comes from people using stenographers, using those devices you see in court.  But it's automatic captions that instantly is available, giving me independence, giving me the ability to make a phone call, right, if you think about it, as we start to weave that technology in

So what it means is we have the chance not just to level the playing field, we have the chance to advance the playing field.

People with disabilities in the U.S. but also more broadly, the unemployment rate is double that of people without disabilities.  And a lot of the reason is this empowerment.  We have this opportunity to empower in the workplace, empower at home.  We can change an unemployment rate

So I get very excited about it, because I look at how technology is impacting my life, and I know there's a long, long way to go.  I look at how eye control has the power to impact communication for Steve going down the road again, and how things like Narrator can impact someone who's blind.  And we're on a journey, but I do believe that over time technology can make that difference

JASON HOWARD:  It sounds like you have quite an impressive vision for the future of technology.  It's going to be fun to join along that ride and see where we go from here

JENNY LAY-FLURRIE:  Game on, right

JASON HOWARD:  Absolutely

JENNY LAY-FLURRIE:  Okay

JASON HOWARD:  So before we break, if you let your imagination run wild, what do you see as the future of technology

JENNY LAY-FLURRIE:  Oh, this is a fun one.  So I'm a big Trekkie fan.  I mean, I am a big Trekkie.  I mean, it's not something I talk a lot about, but my father educated me really well

And, I mean, you think about some of the technologies that were there, I mean, they had people with disabilities empowered through tech, right?  Geordi La Forge and his visor, I mean, how wicked is that

I also think about Xbox and the power of holograms, and while I love my interpreter with every part of my soul before she throws things at me across the room, I mean, wouldn't it be wicked on-demand whenever I needed it to be able to just have a hologram appear and be able to understand a room with my interpreter just sitting right there?  And sometimes invisible.  Again I love you, but a little bit invisible.  I mean, that would be just wicked.  No scheduling, no logistics, just poof, up it comes, complete independence and freedom

And I would love to see wheelchairs seamlessly going down stairs.  There's been a lot of different crazy stuff around that.  My goodness, I could keep going.  I mean, it's world is our oyster I think with this space

JASON HOWARD:  So it seems you have quite the vision for the future of technology.  Before we wrap up, is there anything specific you'd like to share with the users

JENNY LAY-FLURRIE:  Yeah.  Get involved, get going.  Please do check out the website.  That's really the single spot where everything is linked.  So it's Microsoft.com/accessibility.  That's got details on our products, it's got details on conformance.  I mean, it's got details on feedback channels.  It's really a one-stop shop.  It's got our hiring programs on there as well

And the one I'd call out really is our support team.  We actually have a dedicated support environment for our customers with disabilities.  It's called DAD, Disability Answer Desk.  I have no MOM, but I do have a DAD on my team.  And basically they are experts in accessibility, they're experts in accessible technologies.  And so give them a call.  You can use chat, you can use phone.

And for our deaf customers -- and we'll transcribe this podcast, so I know they'll be looking at it, too -- we also have direct videos so you can contact us in American Sign Language, ASL.  And so they can help you with the latest rev of product

But I know for our Insiders they're on it, and I just encourage the feedback, and let us know what else you want to see, because this is a journey and we'll only be as good as the feedback we get

JASON HOWARD:  Absolutely

For you non-Trekkies out there, the visor Jenny mentioned earlier is a device worn by the character Geordi La Forge from the series Star Trek the Next Generation.  If you're not familiar with this, you can check it out on Bing.

Whatever changes may come in tech, it's exciting to know that these efforts will allow more people to participate in school, work, and their personal lives

My conversation with Jenny got me wondering, what kind of impact do innovations in Windows 10 have for real people.  So I sat down with a Windows Insider who is blind and uses accessibility technologies every day

JOSEPH LEE:  I'm Joseph Lee, currently a student at Cal State Los Angeles, studying communication studies, formerly studying computer science at UC Riverside, and currently a Windows Insider.  And I joined the Windows Insider program.  I was one of the first ones to get in on the first day when the very first build came out in October, 2014.

And right now as part of my Insider program work I also am a developer of a screen reader, a third party screen reader named NVDA, Nonvisual Desktop Access

So my work currently focuses on making sure that Redstone 4 builds are usable by people with visual impairments, specifically with Narrator and NVDA and other screen readers

JASON HOWARD:  So obviously you're a Windows Insider, and you said you've been participating in the program since the beginning

JOSEPH LEE:  Yes, since the beginning

JASON HOWARD:  So just kind of overall how has the experience been of being a Windows Insider?

JOSEPH LEE:  I'm impressed with progress I've seen, especially with accessibility features and other Windows features that does have accessibility potential such as most recently eye gaze or eye control, and Cortana obviously, progress with Microsoft Edge and seeing how people can how use consoles with Narrator and many other interesting developments in the accessibility space

JASON HOWARD:  That's awesome

So I do want to ask you about some of your personal experiences, if that's okay

JOSEPH LEE:  Sure

JASON HOWARD:  You know, you mentioned earlier of studying engineering.  I'm assuming that was at UC Riverside, as you had mentioned.  What was that experience like?  If I understand correctly, you were one of the first blind students to actually be in the engineering program at that college

JOSEPH LEE:  I was one of the first blind students to take on engineering.  And for me it was a challenge, at first, because professors didn't know how to describe calculus graphs to me.  I knew the formulas for what the theorems were, but then in terms of graphing and whatnot it was a challenge.  For me it was quite an interesting experience going through computer science as a blind student.  Initially means communication but then in the end through some negotiations and communication it worked out

JASON HOWARD:  So it sounds like you made some progress after a little bit of talking here, you know, some -- getting on the same page, it sounds like, to make some accommodations given the change in the environment, at least for that professor, right

JOSEPH LEE:  Perfectly right.  In the early on, right

JASON HOWARD:  So kind of on a broader scale like just in life as a whole can you describe the experience of having a visual impairment for our listeners

JOSEPH LEE:  I was initially able to see, because I was low vision early on, because I was able to use magnifying glasses to see and walk around, or even take transportation around.  But the overall experience of visual impairment is adjustment and negotiation, adjustment because as often said in many research papers that if you lose one sense, it enhances the others.  For many people for visual impairment it's either touch or hearing.  In my case I'm blessed with both senses.

And the other one is negotiation, trying to live life with something at a loss, but then it opens up a lot of opportunities such as being able to become more sensitive to hearing things such as hearing conversations much better, and being able to use alternative forms of communication, for example, as we'll get into, the screen readers, assistive tools, or sometimes even reading braille

So for those who never experienced visual impairment, it's like stepping into another culture.  There's always going to be initial shock or loss, but then what makes a huge difference in the lives of people with visual impairment is seeing the potential despite loss of something, through adjustment in whatever they do, and negotiating the path forward

JASON HOWARD:  You've had plenty of experience using technology.  Can you tell me about some of the early experiences previously?  Because obviously you said there's been a lot of progress and a lot of change.  So some of that older, early experience, can you tell me about using technology previously?

JOSEPH LEE:  For me the very first taste of technology was when one of my elementary school teachers brought in a printed circuit board, a PCB.  And then a few months later, I got introduced to computers through DOS and screen reader.  Back then the screen readers would just take whatever is on the console and just print it out.

And then this around the time is when I moved to U.S.  And then a few years later, I was introduced to what we now call a primitive note-taker device, a video cassette sized hardware with seven keys, six keys for braille dots and a spacebar.  And the alternative, because the market for assistive technology is small, back then it retailed for more than a thousand dollars

JASON HOWARD:  Wow

JOSEPH LEE:  About 1,500, to be exact

JASON HOWARD:  Oh my goodness

JOSEPH LEE:  Being able to use more advanced tools in Microsoft Office or being able to use more complicated websites was just a dream for us.  It was just static pages, static web pages, just using the basic features of Office, basic features of Word, and using Outlook as an e-mail client and whatnot

That was early days, and that is very, very different world today when we have touchscreens, we have Surface Book 2, we have mixed reality, we have potentials for Cortana collections and whatnot

JASON HOWARD:  So let me touch back on the Windows Insider program for a moment.  So obviously you having been in the program from the beginning, you've seen the change of accessibility features and the focus in Windows on accessibility along the progress as Windows 10 has jumped from build to build and release to release along the way.  And being an Insider obviously you have a chance to help influence the design of Windows and the progress of accessibility along the way.  Can you tell us about some of the experience you've had in helping guide the future of accessibility within Windows

JOSEPH LEE:  I joined the Insider program mostly to see how accessibility is going, as mentioned, as well as to see, making sure that people with disabilities will not be left out in making sure that Windows 10 ecosystems are working for them and whatnot

For me I think the biggest influence that I had on the program, and the most fruitful experience is dialogue and collaboration.  Back then in the early days of Windows Insider program I wrote an open letter to Microsoft addressed to Terry Myerson and other top executives, asking them to invest in accessibility, asking third party universal app developers to invest in listening to feedback on accessibility needs, because they will be potentially speaking and interacting with at least 400 million customers worldwide, and this is just visual impairment.  But there are billions of people who have visible and invisible disabilities around the world

So that was my first initial focus of the Windows Insider program back then, and I think that has been the most fruitful thing I've seen

Obviously appointment of Jenny Lay-Flurrie, on Twitter Jenny Lay-Fluffy, as Chief Accessibility Officer has been a greatest, one of the most significant achievements in terms of disability advocacy at Microsoft

And the other thing that I helped influence is making sure that people think about accessibility in giving feedback

JASON HOWARD:  We've talked a lot about Windows, we've talked about accessibility, we talked about some of your background, but let me ask you an important question about yourself.  Like what are some of your goals in life

JOSEPH LEE:  Since I was a kid, I want to get into teaching.  My other life goal has been to serve, not just teach, because I feel that it is much better for people to show that they are willing to serve others than to be served.  Because for me serving others meant trying to find out what's going on so they can have a better experience in life or providing technical support.  And that's one of the reasons why I joined Insider program was to serve

So those are my life goals, to one day stand on a podium and give lectures about computer science, communication studies, and whatever I learn, and serve

JASON HOWARD:  Are you looking to teach others who have the same sight impairment as you or just broadly in general you want to reach out to anybody that you can have an effect on?

JOSEPH LEE:  Ah, so mostly general public, because to me it doesn't matter who the audiences are, as long as they get the message.  It doesn't have to be people who use screen readers, it doesn't have to be all the blind people alone, all blind people in a group sitting together and using various phones and laptops.  It could be people, general public who are really interested in the back behind the scenes story of disability, accessibility work, or anything, that I need to tell the public about what I'm passionate about

JASON HOWARD:  Well, Joseph, I have to say it's been fantastic chatting with you today.  Thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule.  I know being a student is chaotic and crazy.  There's a lot going on.  Your time is a bit limited.  But it means a lot to us for you to have taken the time to come and speak with us today.  So thank you so very much for that

JOSEPH LEE:  You're welcome

JASON HOWARD:  It's been a pleasure

As we innovate for accessibility and inclusion, it can lead to benefits for people of all abilities.  Take this scenario:  sidewalks have a ramp to enable people in wheelchairs to use them, but that ramp is also helpful for people on bikes or with rolling luggage.  It's a great example of inclusive design benefitting everyone

In addition to changes in the physical world like sidewalk ramps, accessibility features and inclusive design are already changing the way people of all abilities interact with technology.  Who knows what the future will bring?  It's possible that eye tracking and Narrator will have a broader influence on how we all use Windows

If you have questions or feedback about Microsoft's accessibility efforts, I'll include some information to learn more in this episode's description.  And if you want to try out the features we mentioned for yourself, all you need to do is download the Windows 10 Fall Creator's Update.  And of course keep flighting for the chance to get the first look at the newest features in Microsoft releases

Thanks for listening to this month's episode of the Windows Insider podcast.  If you like this episode, be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcast.  We'll be tackling some great topics in the coming months like mixed reality.  You won't want to miss them

Thanks, Insiders.  Catch you next time on the Windows Insider podcast

NARRATOR:  Our program today was produced by Microsoft Production Studios.  The Insider team includes Tyler Ahn, Michelle Paison, and Amelia Greim

Our website is insider.windows.com.  Support for the Windows Insider podcast comes from Microsoft, empowering every person and every organization on the planet to achieve more

Moral support and inspiration comes from Ninja Cat, reminding us to have fun and pursue our passions

Thanks as always to our program's cofounders, Donna Sarkar and Jeremiah Marble.

Make sure you never miss an episode of the Windows Insider podcast by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts.

And if you like this episode, be sure to review and rate the podcast so others can discover it

Join us next month for more stories with Windows InsidersEND